Thoughts
on Prep-La Salle Cancellation
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The St. Joseph's Prep-La Salle football game has been
canceled for Thanksgiving.
Many people have indicated a desire to express an opinion on this. Please send your
comments to silaryt@phillynews.com. We
will list e-mail addresses with the comments.
Thanks very much!
The thanksgiving game is a great atmosphere, you get alumni
and people from both high schools back. It definitly hurts the Prep cause its the
homecoming game. The crowd is always overflowing and even for the social aspect is a great
time. I can see why Lasalle doesn't want to get crushed a third time, and going up
against the 3rd team in the nation 3 times is a tough task to ask of anyyone. Still, I
think tradion needs to be upheld and the game should be played.
Bradore@comcast.net
I played in this game last year and it is more than
just the football.
The game provides a place for all alumni to meet and hang out
with old
friends from high school. The game also provides an amazing
atmosphere
for the players. I think it is ridiculous to take the
oppurtunities
away from the fans and the players by cancelling this game. I
know
most of the college students won't be at the game on Friday
that would
have gone on Thanksgiving. If Lasalle decides to play another
team,
the game will not be the same because of the long-time rivalry
between
Lasalle and Prep.
-- Former Lasalle player Bruce Pohlot
bruce.pohlot@yale.edu
Dear Ted,
The whole thing just doesn't make sense. The Prep-LaSalle
game is a tradition, and over the past 10 years I can't think of a better Thanksgiving day
rivalry in the area. It's a huge money-maker for both schools, and the alumni,
students and parents love waking up to it on Thanksgiving. I don't see why playing
each other a third time ruins things, it happens in the NFL all the time with teams from
the same division playing each other in the playoffs. If LaSalle's administration is
just worried about Brian Tracz and Matt Parkhurst injuring their multi-sport athlete
football players, and I mean...they probably will, but thats just part of the game fellas.
There have been years that LaSalle's beat the Prep like 49-0 in the Thanksgiving game, and
we knew it was coming, we took it like men though. And even though we already killed
LaSalle once this year, and we'll kill them again Friday the 14th, there's always that one
in a million chance lingering out there somewhere I guess for the Thanksgiving game.
In 77 the Prep won it all, but lost to LaSalle on Thanksgiving. And far
stranger things have happened than that. I hope the alumni (Prep and LaSalle alike)
and Prep administrators come through to fix this problem sometime in the near future,
cause I'm not really tryin' to spend my entire day watching the freakin' Lions and
Cowboys. If nothing changes in the next 24 hours though, I think we should run the
score up in the playoff game, if LaSalle decides to show no class, why should we?
-- James Prep 04
WolVMan723@aol.com
Hey Ted. I was really disappointed when I heard the
confirmation this morning that the Prep - LaSalle
Thanksgiving game was canceled. I've been going to the
game since sixth grade when LaSalle (and everyone
else) used to dominate the Prep. Now a senior at the
Prep, I am very angry that the breaking of this
tradition had to come in my last year. I certainly
understand that LaSalle does not want to play 3 games
against us in one year, yet their coach in the paper
two days ago said that they would play on Thanksgiving
if they beat us in Friday's semi-final game. This
shows their very immature and unsportsmanlike attitude
of wanting to win, completely ignoring one of
Philadelphia's best traditions and rivalries. Let it
be known that the Prep in no way wants to miss this
game; LaSalle brought up the topic and basically said
that they would not play us. It's a shame that even
though we used to lose to LaSalle for years in the
past that, now that we have become the area
power-house, they now look for any excuse to avoid
playing us. Don't be surprised if we make up for the
cancellation of the Thanksgiving game this Friday in
the semifinal with a couple of extra touchdowns
against our "esteemed" rivals.
Steve
SJP '04
ontopofthegame03@yahoo.com
I would like to see Prep play Temple on Thanksgiving....both recruit
heavy on the east coast.....Maybe LaSalle University can play LaSalle High School. That
might be a competetive game.
sjsmoose73@msn.com
I'm going to make tonight's game
my Thanksgiving game....any other team on Turkey Day just wouldn't be the same.
My former boss, a Prep Alum, brought up a good point. He said, "This doesn't
make any sense, for all of the years they beat up on us, we took it like men....now that we are winning, playing the Thanksgiving Day game
is cancelled."
Given that, playing three games in a season in any sport other than major league baseball,
and professional b-ball and hockey...is really awkward.
Gress@EAGLES.NFL.com
I think this is absurd! The only lesson the
Pres at La Salle is teaching
his students is if you cannot win; QUIT!!! Whatever
happened to "If the
going gets tough, the tough get going"? This game
has been a tradition
for the last 26 years. It is the last game these seniors
will ever play
in high school, and for some of the boys it is the last
time they will
ever play organized football. I think both schools should
reconsider
their decision, show the students and alumni the
administrations are
truly educators. There is a valuable lesson
to be learned here,
hopefully they will come to this realization.
-- Don Friday
dfriday@fridaysmec.com
Woods has TWO excellent points (stop while you're ahead Sean). One is
the revival of a "Thoughts" board and two - Here's a golden opportunity for BOTH
teams to start a new Thanksgiving Day tradition with teams that match their goals and are
not in the PCL so this can't happen again. I must add that playing any team, let
alone beating them big, three times in a season isn't fun for me (that's what the NBA is
for). Go Prep!
tonyc4@allvantage.com
Hey Ted,
I would just like to commend the LaSalle High School administration on their decision to
cancel the upcoming Prep-LaSalle Thanksgiving day game. The leaders of that school sent a
wonderful, resounding message to its students, faculty, and alumni: If you don't think you
can win, don't even try. This cancellation is a great disappointment, I think, for
everyone involved. There is so much more involved with this game than the final score. As
long as I can remember I have gone to this game, most times leaving without having any
idea who had won. This game had been a chance for students, alumni, and fans of both
schools to come together and share memories, stories and laughs. These two schools have
always had one of the best rivalries in the city, and it was a very healthy rivalry. That
rivalry suffered a tremendous blow yesterday. It is unfortunate for all involved that this
game will not be played. For the seniors, who will miss their final chance to play in this
game, for alumni who will need to find somewhere else to go on Thanksgiving morning,
and to the youngsters whose mothers will now drag them to the
Thanksgiving Day parade (smile). One final note, the Naval Academy has not beaten Notre
Dame since 1963, however the two school have played every year since. At least there is
some sense of tradition and pride somewhere in the athletic world.
-- Greg McKeever, Prep '03
GJMCKE07@holycross.edu
Dear Ted,
All I have to say to Lasalle is this,
IF YOU'RE SCARED, GET A DOG!
This is a typical Lasalle move. Not only are they afraid
to play the prep
again and be embarrassed, they were also afraid of losing to
McDevitt, a
lowly blue division school. I am happy however that it
ruined the
traditions of these schools for this year cause I'm not a fan
of either
school. If these people had any true boldness, they would
be playing tackle
football themselves, no pads style, in the playground. I
know I'll be doing
such when I'm running over all who oppose me in the Turkey Bowl
of Mcdevitt.
I really can't say enough about how the lasalle
administration is just
scared that thier precious lacrosse players will be
hurt(lacrosse? please.)
----TATE
orelandtenacity@hotmail.com
Yeah we all know that for the past 26 years, the Prep-LaSalle
thanksgiving
game has been arguably the best rivaly/tradition in the city.
But it seems
to me that Prep has outgrown that kind of game and possibly
outgrown the
catholic league all together. I may be jumping the gun
here but I know I am
not alone when I say that the Prep (probably LaSalle too) has
overstayed its
welcome in the PCL. Nobody can really blame LaSalle for
not wanting to play
the tri-state all star team 3 times in 1 season. It
absolutely incredible
what the Prep have done with their program in the past couple
years. This
year's team is flat out wicked and has an amount of talent that
I would dare
to call absurd and something tells me that very little will
change in years
to come. I think that unless the Prep changes its rules
and abides by the
same policies that the rest of the PCL teams to (ex: playing
games as normal
& being unaffected by the strike earlier this year) and
obviously with the
recruiting. Having said this I am not hating on the Prep
and am praising
them for what they have done with their program but something
has to change
soon if this pattern continues and I think it is inevitable.
Not to digress
from the subject here. It is crazy that any 2 teams
should play 3 times in
1 year most teams in other areas would say it is not right to
play a team
twice even. I do not blame anyone for the cancellation
nor do I call anyone
names but I do feel bad for the senior players on each time
being deprived
of a game. The Jimmy Price fantasy bowl on thanksgiving:
North Penn drops
landsdale catholic to play prep. Never gonna happen but
boy what a
beautiful thought...thanks ted-Jimmy "PAY IT" Price
bizskooler67@hotmail.com
I just have one thing to say, The prep is a HIGH
school and the recruit
like a college does ( unfair) no wonder
they are so good
ParfittHW@devalcol.edu
Hey Ted,
I think cancelling the thanksgiving day game is a terrible idea. When I was a
little kid my dad would take my brothers and me to the games. I always wanted
to play in the thanksgiving day game against st. joes. the three times i walked
onto that field it was so special. I think that taking that away from both
these teams is the worst thing that could happen, especially to the seniors. i
would have been heart broken if they cancelled the game in my senior year, id
rather play it and get slaughtered than cancel it. It doesn't matter how many
times they have played each other, thanksgiving is a sacred game and should be
played no matter what.
-- Chris Galbally La Salle '03
cfg119@psu.edu
Actually I think that both schools should get out of the Catholic League.
If you think recruiting is rediculous now, just wait until the Catholic
League decides to go to the PIAA and teams want to create a state champion
and be on the USA today top ten list.
jspada@sainthelenaschool.org
The choice to cancel the game on Thanksgiving sets a very
troublesome precedent for years to come. As Huck pointed
out, this is
not going to be the last time this will happen since The
Catholic League
will not switch back to North and South for football. The
situation raises
the question, "Does LaSalle want their alumni to see their
team lose big
on a big fund raising day?" The same question could
also e asked if
the roles were reversed. In the mid-'90s LaSalle was a
dominant
program and no matter what the outcome would be, The Prep still
showed up to play. The decision was said to be a mutual
one, but it
didn't even have to be that way. One team could have just
said "we are
not showing up, so go pound sand." Is there a reason
that the JV
squads can't play the game? I am sure it will be a thrill
for some of
those guys who may never get real time in a varsity game to
play on
Thanksgiving. To me it seems that if the game can be
canceled one
year, why not next year if the situation presents itself again?
What if both
teams advance to the final? Will they tell the League
"we are playing on
Thanksgiving, it can be for the title or not, it is your
choice." The only
logical solution seems to be to end the game all together.
However
neither team can afford to do that because no one wants to
schedule a
regular Thanksgiving Day game in which they may lose more often
then
they win. (save The Prep, who is losing in this all-time series
18-9) As a
graduate of The Prep, I am dissapointed by the whole situation.
This is
slippery slope that we never should have ventured onto.
The game
should be played, no matter how many times the teams
played each
other, use the JV, heck use the Frosh Squads. Will this
predicament
arise every year? Hopefully not. Will the Prep always be
this dominant in
the Catholic League? This is a team that won about 4
games in 4 years
in the early '90's. No team is great forever, Ryan won 4
straight titles at
one point, now they are barely a .500 club. The long term
needs to be
looked at, and I feel with this move the schools have killed
what was
once a great game.
Peter Castagna-Prep class of '99.
pcastagna@stmichaels.dgcs.schoolaccess.net
I think the Prep vs. La Salle football game is a great
tradition and brings a great atmosphere to the Holidays. But wats up wiht all this
talk that these prep fans are saying about us being to scared to play the prep. La Salle
football isnt scared of the Prep . . . I kno when i am senior will run over the prep and
there will be no thanksgiving day game then because theyll be the one afraid. peace
bmastur@worldnet.att.net
Ted
Did it ever occur to the geniuses and to both schools who adopted the Red Blue
concept that this was a distinct possibility somewhere down the line?
AlBiMeSeCo@aol.com
First of all, I didn't go to La Salle or Prep, and I never even watched
either team play, but this is ridiculous. You play the game for the fun of it. This is
high school ball! One thing that my coach taught me, was that no matter who you play, you
never go into game thinking that you can't win. The school canceling that game shows that
they have no faith in their players, no respect for their coaches, and no pride in their
school. How many times are student-athletes told that winning isn't everything? I guess
that's only something used to console the losers. That seems like a real good lesson to
teach your students. Go out there and try your best... unless you really don't think you
can win. Playing each other three times in a season has nothing to do with it. The school
just doesn't want to be embarrassed. If I was on that La Salle team, I would walk my
players on to the field on Thanksgiving and play my heart out, no matter what the school
says. I don't care if its a flag football game, I'd play til the clock was filled with 0's
and keep my pride, since the school doesn't really care about theirs.
edf2+@pitt.edu
We all knew this was going to turn into
a random intelligent thought section all over again....so while I'm going to mention the
Turkey Day thing, I want to touch on the ever popular recruiting topic again.
After watching the Prep/LaSalle game Friday night, my anger about the Thanksgiving Day
game diminished. The Prep scored enough points for both games anyway.
Now on to the recruiting and all that admissions hub-bub. First, everyone recruits
now. The Prep simply does it better, haha (much like everything else). But
even still, much like the Eagles nowadays, the program/system is so good and works so much
like a machine that any schmo can be plugged into a position and perform well. They
have interchangeable parts. The guys simply work the hardest in the off-season, work
the hardest during practice, work the hardest in the film room. Bottom line.
As a Prep football player, anything less than excellence is not tolerated. Sure Gil
recruits....but name me the stud standouts who are passing for 300 yards or are sack
machines. Right, you probably can't.....sure Danny Jones and maybe one or two others
are MVP type guys who were "recruited" but thats about it. 98% of the
other guys on that team would probably be average players at any other school. Its
the system, the coaches, the style, and the attitude that makes Prep football different
from any other school.
-- Mark Gress Jr.
gress79@comcast.net
The cancellation of any Thanksgiving game is never good. But, hey, didn't
the rest of the PCL teams miss two games in the beginning
of the season? I still remember them; playing two less games during your senior season
isn't welcomed in my book. However, you have to take it in stride - life isn't always
peaches.
allprorc52@yahoo.com
Hey Ted,
I would just like to say that I am in a state of disbelief
right now. What kind of messed up precedent is La Salle trying to set. What am
I, a Prep alum, supposed to do, wait until La Salle gets better or the Prep gets worse to
get my Thanksgiving Game back. I can remember a year ago standing in those stands
when the clock went to zero with this strange feeling of that being my last football game
as a student but at the same time thinking next year I get to come back and enjoy it in a
whole other way as an alum. Now I don't get that chance, because let's face it
nothing is as good as it would be the first time around, meaning going back two years from
now won't be anywhere as good as the first time back because I am two years removed and
that strong connection to my alma mater has diminished just a little bit. In closing
I would just like to thank La Salle for ruining a perfectly good tradition for our
seniors, their seniors, and the thousands of alumni from both sides who come from
many miles to many states away to experience the only thing that comes close to the
wonderfulness of a Thanksgiving meal after having to eat college food for many months.
Never in my entire life have I been so glad to not go to that unholy institution
that was only 10 minutes from my house. Thank you, La Salle President, you have made
my 45 minute to an hour and a half drives to the Prep in the worst and best weather one on
of the most treacherous roads (the Drive) that much more special because of your
selfishness and closed mindedness.
-- Tom Meehan, Prep '03
TFMEEH07@holycross.edu
I propose that either the prep or lasalle play archbishop carroll on
thanksgiving. This game would create almost a natural PCL
championship since
no one else in the red is capable of beating carroll, prep or
lasalle on a
consistent basis. Carroll, although a diocesan high
school, has as strong a
program as LaSalle and the Prep. This game would put an
end to all the talk
of the Carroll bashers and their opinion that the RED is such a
great
division. People complain about Carroll simply because
they win. They are
just mad they have to play the Prep and Lasalle, and they
probably have a
point there. Both teams play in the same league, but
don't play by the
league's rules. What has Carroll done? They are the
fourth smallest school
in the league, and cannot offer scholarships like Prep and
Lasalle. Schools
attacking Carroll for not playing in the Red have absolutely no
ground to
stand on so they should just keep their mouths shut. I am not
bad mouthing
the prep, because I think they are a great team that works hard
and
obviously has a great deal of talented players pass through
their system.
The prep's team is great, no one can deny that, there is
nothing wrong with
what they do except for the fact that they play in a league in
which they
have unfair advantages over others. The same goes for
lasalle. Thank you
for your time Ted
krayzieboneooo@hotmail.com
Class seems to be an issue brought up by several Prep fans. It disgusts me
that people have the nerve to call Lasalle's administration classless. Prep is a
HIGH school, and they recruit for atheltic purposes, regardless of academic
standing. Last time i checked the school was named St. Joesph's PREPARATORY
School. I guess the capitilized word only applies to certain students at the
school, and for some football players the word means nothing. Tell me where the
class in recruiting is, no one else in the league does it. Where is the class in
40-0 wins week after week? I guess that shows class because you can beat
lasalle. Prep can cry all they want about having 4 wins in 4 years, and lasalle
owning them back in the 90's. It was different then....Guys like Brett Gordon and
Chris Pennington went to Lasalle to increase academic knowledge, not to help build a
precious football dynasty. Prep will probab! ly win a third straight title(no
disrespect to ohara), and if it means that much to you.....im happy for you. Do high
school football championships mean so much that you'll recruit like a major university to
keep winning...in my mind..it shouldn't. The rules should be changed to stop
recruiting, because in this case...it is out of hand. I don't blame Lasalle for
cancelling the game, i'm behind the decision 110%. Play a third time...for
what? No one wants to play just to see Prep's team roll again. Classless is
only a term that should be used when discussing Prep's desire to pound the catholic league
red division.
clsportsfan@yahoo.com
I wanted to comment on how much of a disgrace it is to cancel the LaSalle/Prep
Thanksgiving Game. As part of the alumni of Lasalle and LaSalle Football,
I can tell you that this game was more than just a game. It was about tradition and
most of all it was about being able to suit up one last time as a senior player. I
missed my last 2 games of my senior year last year at LaSalle due to a shoulder
injury. The games were the semifinal against Roman and Thanksgiving against
Prep. I was devastated when I found out that I would need surgery on my shoulder and
that I wouldn't be allowed to play in those two games. As a former
player, I know what it was like and what I went through having the final games of my
senior year taken away from me. I still think to myself how much I
would have loved to been able to play in the Thanksgiving Game my senior year against
Prep, and I probably always will. By canceling this game, the short-term
actions of a few are going to forever effect the long-term memories of a bunch, both
from LaSalle and the Prep.
- Former LaSalle Player Jim Finore, ' 03
james.finore@sju.edu
we take time out from this discussion to post a message from a long-time buddy of huck's . . .
I need you to pass onto Puck a little wisdom that I learned a long long
time ago........NEVER, EVER, I MEAN EVER try and beat Huck in something
that he created OR more importantly made up the rules for the game.
Whether it's stick ball, box ball, street hockey, crate basketball, wire
ball, handicapping games.....IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!! He always wins, no
matter what! ALWAYS!
-- Bill Bethel
OK, back to La Salle-Prep matters . . . (ha ha)
LaSalle is a joke. No other team would back out of a game just because of the
circumstances. 3 times to many? Cry me a river. LaSalle athletic programs have declined in
recent years not because they don't recruit (because they do, my brother is being
contacted and there is no way he's going there after this) it is because they don't care.
I'm a senior Football player at McDevitt and although I would give anything for a game
against LaSalle I don't think it's right that they break up such a game. Not only is this
the first year in 26 years LaSalle and Prep wont play on Thanksgiving but it's longer then
that since McDevitt has not played the girls from the Hill. They cancelled our game this
year because they couldn't take the embarressment of losing to a Blue Division school. But
now we don't have to embarress you, you did it yourself by quiting. It's a disgrace for
anybody to defend LaSalle on this position because if games were played on paper the
excitment would b! e lost. There is only one thing that could make LaSalle look worse in
this situation them scheduling another team. It doesn't matter what the outcome is
cancelling a traditional game and scheduling in an easier opponent is low. Although it
would be funny to see them lose to 2 Inter-Ac schools in one season.
- Terence Sawick, 04.
P.S.To the Carroll player who wrote in saying that they can challenge the Prep, is a fool.
I don't care how cocky you are, your statement was pure stupidity. We played you and lost
21-0 but the score did not reflect the game. You would get trampled by the Prep like
everybody else, but atleast your willing to play, unlike some other people.
irishwick13@yahoo.com
Everyone needs to chill with "La Salle is afraid to play
us". That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. If we were afraid we
would of forfeited the first two games. "Being afraid" That's not
the case at all. The decision to cancel the game was an adminstrative decision and
does not reflect the way the players feel. Everyone on La Salle's squad wants
to still play this game. Many parents of players and players themselves have
emailed the school protesting the cancellation. So the idea of "La Salle's
scared to play us" is I guess an easy way to look at it from the Prep viewpoint, but
is incorrect. My point is that the players were not involved at all in the
decision making. So to say "they're afraid" is pretty dumb, because no one
ever asked what the players thought. Sure Gil's quote and Colistra's quote
in the Inquirier may make it look like LS didn't want to play, but ultimately it was to be
decided among the principals of the schools. None of us who write in know what
exactly was said during that meeting: the reasons behind the canceling, the
terms, who wanted to cancel, what the factors were, whatever. I don't know what
the admistrations are thinking, because my teammates and I want to play, but my
point is that you (Preppies) don't know either. So, Preppies, don't
act you have all the answers because you have no idea.
TooShady2u@aol.com
Hello all you fans of the La Salle- Prep rivalry! I am a player on the La Salle
football team this year and I have been attending the game ever since I can remember. I am
mad the game is not happening, but before everyone blames La Salle for this cancellation
of the game I think both sides had something to do with it. Coach Brooks said in the paper
that he found it silly to play three times. So everyone can go blame La Salle and talk
ish, but when it comes down to yeah we lost twice already but I know every player on our
team would not mind another go around. We know Prep is better, that's a given, but
never NEVER say we don't have any heart or are "scared" to play this game. We
were never given the choice. The call came down from the powers that be and to my
knowledge it was a joint decision. So please don't attack our players and administration
for a decision the Prep had just as much control over. Also, all you Prep fans out there
that are enjoying kicking us while we're down have fun, but we will always be ready to
play Prep whenever the time comes no matter if we play 3,4, or even 10 times in a season.
We enjoy playing Prep and they can beat us as much as they want, but we'll come back and
someday soon we will reign victorious once again!
-- Eddie DiDonato
La Salle Football #10
Red10dawg@aol.com
Time out for a note from Ted . . .
There is no doubt that the original push to cancel the game
came from La Salle's administration.
As you said, The Prep at some point did go along with the decision, but not without
severe
disappointment and head-scratching.
OK, the timeout is over . . .
Im sure the Prep players are happy about the cancellation, they wont have to make the trek from the Jersey Shore to get to the game. Prep fans call LaSalle sore losers....are you kidding me! The Prep recruited students solely for their atheltic ability just to beat La Salle. And to discredit a previous Prep fan, if you didnt have Jones, Shaw...and other south jersey residents, your team would be as sorry as it was back in the 90's.Hey Ted,
I am a currently a junior at Lasalle High School and think its a shame they cancelled the
Thanksgiving Day game. In my opinion LaSalle cancelled this game out of, i dont think
this is the right word but our Out of Fear to embarrassed again by a superior Prep
football team. This matchup was no different in the 1990's when LaSalle had the great
squad with Brett Gordon and Co. In conclusion why not announce the Seniors do all the
pregame ceremonies and let the JV teams play or the maybe the Freshman play. its what its
going to end up being anyway cause Prep will be winning by alot.
-- TE
tse1083@comcast.net
Ted,
clsportsfan is a moron with little or no grasp of the reality of the Prep, its
football program, or the players who make up that program. He implies that the
Prep's football players are enrolled there solely to show up and play football,
they're not there to get an education. He has no idea what he is talking
about, the football players do the same work as everyone else in the school,
and they get the same "increase in acadameic knowledge" that everyone else. Go
down to the school one day and see if anybody thinks that Greg Ambrogi, yea the
kid with 12 picks for this squad, isn't one of the smartest kids in the whole
school. I'm not gonna sit here and run through it piece by piece, but a lot of
these football players clsportsfan wants to deride have gone on to some pretty
highly regarded colleges. A few which come to mind immediately just from guys
I know that have played on the 00-02 teams are Harvard, Penn, Columbia,
Dartmouth, Georgetown, Lehigh, Notre Dame, Bucknell, Air Force Acadamy, etc.
It goes on. Those kids are there for the academic opportunity and to play
football. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous and false. And the complaint
about 40-0, what are they supposed to do, kneel on the ball the whole second
half? It's not like Brooks is leaving the starters in all game, if his second
teamers are still scoring can you really be angry with him? No one was
complaining when Carrol was beating teams 70 something to 0 a few years back.
The Prep could do the same if it wanted to. If some of these other coaches and
teams spent less time whining about the Prep and more time in the weight room
and watching film we wouldn't be having this discussion. End of story.
Tom Bradley, Prep '03
tbradle2@nd.edu
krayzieboneooo@hotmail.com,
Are you kidding me?
Carroll who is ranked 3rd, not 1st, not 2nd....but 3rd in the
Baby Blue
Division playing the Prep.....why not just roll out St. Matt's
Grade School
on Turkey Day to play the Prep?
Gress@EAGLES.NFL.com
I am Prep class of 1953 and last year we were provided a room in the old High
School building to watch the game from a "Luxury Box" position as the 50 year
class. I feel sorry for the Class or 1954. As for recruiting, I heard that about LaSalle
in the mid 1990's when they were winning 30 straight games. It is called "Sour
Grapes." The administrators of the Catholic League High Schools endorsed recruiting
when they provided "Open Enrollment." Admission standards at LaSalle are no
tougher than SJP. Things go in cycles. One of my classmates remarked that it was tougher
to make the band than the football team in our day. Now, I must endure a Thanksgiving
morning of "Honey Do."
Bill Hamburger
WHamburger@aol.com
First of all, all the talk about recruiting really has to
stop. Everyone does it, its just that it's not that hard for the Prep to recruit
good players considering the caliber of the team, program, and coaches. All the
coaches in the Catholic League go to grade school games looking for someone to fill a spot
. . . How can you blame Gil Brooks for having a good eye for talent and then knowing
how to coach that talent into a well rounded football player and man. As for
the "outsider" input from people and their resolutions, it's not a matter
of the Prep playing someone of equal ability. Once again this is not just
a game, its an event. It's where guys who hated one another in high school
because they went to rival schools come together years later. Guys like these are
now partners in the same firm, run the same practice, or work together in the same
business. I have spoken to many alumni who say that they work with La Salle
guys who are great guys. During my four years at the Prep, there was a big
effort to get rid of the hate between the two schools. This is the one major event
where that hate is overlooked. The two teams come out on to the field and shake
hands at the beginning of the game while alumni from both sides do the same and share
stories of the old days. The fact that La Salle just "handed over the
trophy" Friday night is a disgrace. First of all, it wasn't their's to hand
over since the last time I checked it was in a Prep trophy case. We need to
come up with some way the Prep and La Salle can compete on Thanksgiving. How
about a round of golf or game of tennis, because let's face it that country club of a
high school definitlely recruits for those sports so they should have no trouble
competing.
-- Tom Meehan Prep '03 (All We Do Is Win Championships)
TFMEEH07@holycross.edu
Hey Ted,
Just wanted to thank you for reminding me how much I don't miss
Random/Intelligent Thoughts. You open up a discussion about a longstanding traditional
Thanksgiving day game, and what a surprise, simply because the Prep and LaSalle are
invovled, the recruiting "scandal" once again comes up. If I could I would just
like to take the time to explain this to everyone. EVERY SCHOOL IN THE COUNTRY, LET ALONE
THE PCL, RECRUITS. IF YOU DO NOT ACTIVELY TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO COME TO YOUR SCHOOL YOU
WILL NOT HAVE A SCHOOL AFTER LONG. RECRUITING IS PERFECTLY LEGAL. I get the impression
that a lot of people do not understand this. The only time this becomes illegal is when
athletic scholarships are given out. The giving of financial aid on the basis of athletic
ability is illegal; but trying to convince a kid to come to your school, who happens to be
good at football or basketball or whatever, is not. Despite what everyone seems to think,
The Prep and LaSalle do not do this. Neither of these school are in violation of any PCL
rules. I hope this clears up any confusion (ignorance) that any of you may have. Again it
is just a shame that this game had to be cancelled, and I think whoever had the idea of
having JV teams play may have been on to something. I hope the two sides can come up with
a solution because this whole thing is an ugly situation, one in which there is no winner.
Thanks again Ted.
Greg McKeever
PREP '03
(P.S.- I think the PCL only stands to benefit from the Prep's involvement. The
"dominance" of the Prep over the past few years only forces teams like O'Hara
and Roman and LaSalle to improve their football programs, making the league better as a
whole.)
GJMCKE07@holycross.edu
Ted,
as an alum of the prep and a veteran fan of this game every year, I
was very displeased to hear about the cancellation of this game. the
fact that lasalle does not want to lose to us 3 times in one
season is no excuse. it’s a tradition that these teams
play every year on this day. the prep used to get killed by lasalle every year, and last time I checked, despite our recent
victories, we are still losing the thanksgiving series by a fair margin. not wanting to lose is no excuse to cancel a game. you play because it is football, and it is what you have dedicated
the better part of your year to do. canceling this game is yet
another reason for the current prep students to hate lasalle. if their intention was to keep the rivalry hot, good job, otherwise,
the lasalle athletic department has proved just how esteemed
they are.
Hank
SJP ’02
hschober@uvm.edu
Lasalle...afraid to play Mcdevitt...ha! Lasalle won 37-0 last
year and your team was even weaker this year. Any team would have done what Lasalle
did...they know it. Lasalle made the playoffs, Mcdevitt didn't.
The game would have been cancelled cause of your teachers strike anyway.
clsportsfan@yahoo.com
Dear Ted,
This is a bad situation no matter how you cut it. I feel for the
seniors at both La Salle and St. Joe’s. The memories of their
final high school football game have been taken away. As a member of
the La Salle alumni, I would have more respect for La Salle if the team went out and gave
everything they had against the Hawks. This will be a sad day for all
of the “adults” who were responsible for this decision.
Regards,
Mike Casey
Class of 1986
mcasey@pacesupplycorp.com
From the "beating the dead horse" side of the this discussion
I'd like to
address clsportsfan. You seem to say that dominance in a
sports
mean you must recruit. If that is the case then LaSalle
has some
explaining to do for Golf, Tennis, and most of all swimming.
It seems
whenever the Prep gets good in one sport, there is this
underlying
comment on recruiting. Can we also look at some of the
better athletes
that have come out of the Prep and where they are going. (i.e.
Penn,
Columbia, Air Force Academy). Does the Prep seek out kids
who are
both athletically and academically talented? Of course. Do
other
schools? Without a doubt. So clsportsfan (I love the fact
you didn't post
your real name), here's a tuition break, buy a clue.
pcastagna@stmichaels.dgcs.schoolaccess.net
the following e-mail comes from Tony Resch,
La Salle's athletic director.
we appreciate that he took the time to express his school's viewpoint . . .
I am disappointed by your comments
that the “original push” for this decision was from La Salle and that St.
Joe’s went along “…but not without severe disappointment and
head-scratching.” Here was the timeline as I experienced it. When it was
confirmed that we would play St. Joe’s in the PCL semi-final, we knew a decision
would have to be made regarding Thanksgiving. On Monday, we held a meeting at La
Salle with our president, our principal, the athletic director (yours truly), the former
athletic director, the assistant principal of student affairs, and the head football
coach. Prior to this meeting, I personally sought out input from our former
principal and former-former athletic director.
The meeting attendees brought up all of the issues that have been raised on
your comment board: first and foremost the students, but also tradition and alumni.
The fact of the matter was that the possibility of the two teams playing three times had
been coming up for the last seven years. Each of those discussions with St.
Joe’s resulted in a mutually agreed upon position that we would petition the PCL to
have our playoff/championship game (depending on the situation in a given year) played on
Thanksgiving because playing three times in one season was too much. (As an
aside, a reporter personally -- told me that three times seemed a bit much and emailed me
that there was no precedent for playing three times in football – and this guy knows
the history of the area.) As it turned out it never came to pass until this year.
This was the driving force behind the consensus reached at the meeting: two teams
playing three times was too much for one season. At that point, our principal called
St. Joe’s principal and informed him of our position. After some pursuant
conversations at the principal and AD levels, the next day the principals agreed on a
joint statement. If the disappointment was “severe” and there was much
“head-scratching” at St. Joe’s, it was not communicated to us.
The proverbial “fly-in-the-ointment” here was the preemptive
newspaper article last Monday. If we could have had these discussions between
schools before those comments were in print, it might have seemed more like a mutual
agreement. From my perspective, it was a mutual agreement. Be assured that
there was no internal discussion of “ducking” St. Joe’s or “being
scared” of a third loss. Nor did we ignore the tradition or the alums who enjoy
the rivalry. I completely understand tradition. I was a participant in the
100th Yale-Harvard football game. I have been a spectator/participant/coach for the
last 30 or so years of the PC/GA game. The rest of the leadership of La Salle is
equally committed to tradition and continuing this fine rivalry. But if this
situation of three games in a season comes up again, the two schools will discuss the
situation and come to an agreed upon solution.
So there you have it, from one person’s perspective. I know this
won’t be of much help to those who are disappointed by our decision. But I hope
it gives them some context as to how we reached this point.
-- Tony Resch
(Ted's note: I was the "reporter" mentioned above. Three meetings
are indeed a bit much. Under normal circumstances. But Thanksgiving games, especially one
such as Prep/La Salle (or La Salle/Prep, just to be fair in the billing -- smile), are
more of a social occasion than anything else for many of the spectators. Football is just
a backdrop. I strongly believe this, and it's just an opinion: if the teams were
closer in strength this year, there would not have been a Thanksgiving cancellation . . .
By the way, I have known Tony's family since my days in high school at PC. His father was
a beloved assistant coach for our football team and his brother was one of my teammates.
(I use the word "teammate" loosely because Hank was a actual player. I just
kicked and punted -- smile.) Once again, I appreciate that Tony took the time to weigh in
on the matter.)
Back to the regular e-mails . . .
Ted,
My Prep football career was far from anything special...As a
5-9 135 lbs.
backup QB/Punter I usually looked forward to warm-ups more then
the actual
game...During my senior year we went 0-10 (not counting the win
we got
because Roman used a 36-year player)...We only scored 2 TD's
that year (one
on offense and one on defense) and we got rolled by LaSalle in
the Turkey
Day game. Not something to brag about, but I will say
that the game vs.
LaSalle on Thanksgiving turned out to be my most memorable
game. I took a
few snaps and even threw a few passes (I don't think I
completed any of them
though). What was great about that game was that it was
the first time that
most of my five other brothers and sisters got a chance to see
me play since
at the time they were all living somewhere else and were home
for the
weekend. It didn't matter that I sucked and that we were
losing big in the
2nd half when I went it, what mattered was they got to see my
play. This is
what bugs me the most with this game not being played.
There are kids on
both teams, that will not have a chance to play even a few
downs.
If I were a LaSalle alum, student or employee, I would be embarrassed.
You wonder why the Prep is having so much success? Coaching! Coaching
is what has separted the Prep from the other schools if you ask
me. Gil
Brooks is a Prep grad and his passion for the game is
contagious. He alone
has taken the Prep from being the perverbial doormat in the
Catholic League
to a team that will play anyone, anywhere.
I read all this talk about recruiting and the Prep is the only
team that
does it. To those who feel that way I say you are
ignorant. There was an
earlier post that read that we bring in kids from New Jersey.
Your right,
you got us. They come from to us from the far reaches of
Cherry Hill to the
Cornfields of Marlton. If you knew anything about
the Prep, you would know
that 25% of the students come from New Jersey. You see;
the city of
Philadelphia, where the Prep is located, is just on the other
side of the
river from New Jersey. Yea we brought Danny Jones all the
way in from New
Jersey to play for us. He probably gets home from
practive sooner then half
his teammates. Gil Brooks - did we recruit him to?
I mean he lives in New
Jersey. Ask John Shaw how many schools in the Catholic
League recruited him
and he will tell you that Prep wasn't the only one. And to
think, he comes
all the way from Gladwyne.
Back to my point...It is a shame that there is not a game this
year and I
think the only way to make sure something like this never
happens again is
to look for other opponets as this WILL happen again...I am
sure when we
first played eachother in 1976 there wasn't much to it.
Well both schools
need to find another opponent and start a new tradition or make
an agreement
that not matter if they have to play four times in a season,
thay they will
always play on Thanksgiving. The problem that I see the
Prep running into
is that there are not many schools out there in the area that
want to play
us and if they do, they probably already have a Thanksgiving
Day game...The
people who want to see a North Penn - Prep game are wrong as
well...That
would not solve anything and it would be quite unfair to both
North Penn and
Lansdale Catholic as they have their own rivalry and who are we
to change
that. Ideally the I think the Prep vs. Malvern
or Carroll at Vilanova stadium would be a win/win/win for
all the schools
involved...For the high schools because they are all catholic
and are
somewhat competitive from a recruiting of students standpoint.
Kids that go
to the Prep may have had Malvern or Carroll as a 2nd choice and
vice versa.
Villanova wins because they get to expose some of the best high
school
football players in the area to their program. Maybe
Downs, Stovall or
Hobson would have opted to stay local and play at Nova.
Who knows? Anyway
they need to either say we are playing regardless or look for
another
opponent. None of this, let's see how the first two games
go then we will
decide the fate of a tradition dating back over 25 years.
The real tough thing here though is that there are going to be
a whole bunch
of Prep and LaSalle alums from all over showing up at work on
the Monday
after Thanksgiving limping from all the muscles that are going
to be pulled
from playing in Turkey Bowls in their backyards. Over the
years many from
both schools have passed up the neighborhood Turkey Bowl game
to attend this
game, but not this year. It will be a time to lace'em a
relive the glory
days and if your me, that is 4th and 17, down 35 to LaSalle
with 3:31 to
play and your entire O-Line are guys just like you, not good
enough to
start.
GO Prep!
redrugger9@hotmail.com
Ted
First of all I want to thank you for having a great forum for comments and information
source for high school sports. Since this is such an urban area, with so many professional
teams, the high school sports do not always get the coverage they deserve.
Plus the number of high schools is huge: Philly, and the suburbs, South Jersey etc.
I grew up watching the Catholic League. North and South division (I know I am dating
myself) I loved it when my son chose LaSalle and we were back in the Catholic league.
We live up in the North Penn area.
I loved the football, the rivalries and the tradition in the PCL. With open enrollment
that is beginning to change. It is my belief that every team should play each other in the
PCL.
But no ....Now they can pick and choose..
Mc Devitt did not want to play LaSalle because of the 37-0 loss in 2002 so Mc Devitt
refused to play in 2003.
Wood is on a winning streak so they backed out playing the Prep in Nov 2003.
GET OVER IT!!!!
I want to go back to less CHOICES!!! Everyone in the PCL PLAYS EVERYONE ELSE!!
As a parent of a LaSalle football senior, I wanted my son to play his final football game
in
front of thousands of family, friends and fans, some of whom could only get to the
Thanksgiving Day game.
I wanted to take pictures of my son with family, friends and team members.
Years ago the administration decided not to play 3 games. No problem.
Now that the PIAA is coming to the Catholic and the Public Leagues, many Thanksgiving
traditions may change.
The Friday night game of LaSalle Vs the Prep was a great one. Every
player seem to reach out and give 200% as they would do on Thanksgiving,
But it transcended the typical high school rivalry especially for the seniors.
All of sudden you were now up against a short-term rival but a possible (based on his
college decision)
teammate.. you can appreciate his ability and hoped to learn from any of his tips (and his
mistakes if next year you are vying from that same position). My son received his devious
mind from me.
I would a forum where we can hear from the college athletes. Here are some that I know of.
The recruiters probably know more than I do.
Pohlot (Yale) Marabella (Penn) from LaSalle
Kaiser (?) Ambrogi (Penn) from the Prep
Kevin Jones (VaTech) from OHara ( HEISMAN potential)
Greg Hennigar walk on at Penn State who wsa tragically killed in an auto
accident,
Mc Court (?) from Roman
The future:
Prep Jones
Ohara Heygood
and the poor nameless LINEMAN who never get press
FORUM TOPICS FOR PCL ATHLETES WHO WANT TO MOVE ON:
Where are they going? How did they get there ?
WHAT DO I NEED TO DO TO GET THERE?
Sorry if this is too boring I am a MOM after all and the is life
after football
MabInc00@aol.com
The Thanksgiving table will be a little quieter this year
without the
game. It has always provoked some interesting family friendly
conversation. The rivalry was not only on the field but around the
dinner table as I am a graduate of LaSalle and my sons currently attend
The PREP. Oh, well maybe next year!
jcurtin@mercerins.com
I know that both sides of this issue have strong opinions on the
subject,
but I would guess you are all football fans. Since there will
not be a game
between Prep / LaSalle this year on Thanksgiving, I have an
alternative for
football fans who want to see a great game. Come see St.
Dorothy's play St.
Bernadette at Dermond Field in Drexel Hill. The varsity starts
at 10am and
the JV starts right after the varsity.
St. Dot's and St. Bernies have been playing their annual Turkey
Bowl for the
past 44 years, which is the longest grade school rivalry in the
Philadelphia
area as far as I know. Not only does the Turkey Bowl provide
fun football
games to watch, but it offers a great atmosphere for the kids
and fans
alike. In my opinion, it wouldn't be Thanksgiving without the
Turkey Bowl.
So if you don't have one to go too or your's was
canceled.....take a trip to
Drexel Hill, you will not be disappointed. Happy Thanksgiving!
tc_1203@hotmail.com
As a football player at Middlebury College and a LaSalle football Alumni, I
am very displeased that the Thanksgiving game was cancelled. There are few
opportunities for alumni like myself to gather in one place and catch up.
It's more than just a game, it's one of the greatest traditions Philadelphia
has going on. Also, I'd be disappointed to miss any chance to watch LaSalle
take a shot at the Prep. It's only a matter of time Explorers.
- Drew Babin
LaSalle '02
atbabin@middlebury.edu
Ted,
From an outsiders view, I think the most
dissappointing thing about
all this is that it has just become another reason for the Prep
and
LaSalle to bicker. Stop being so mad at each other about
everything,
and be upset that the adminstrations are taking away
Thankgsgiving
football for every senior at your schools. As a college
student, I can
tell you nothing compares to that, and it is being taken away
with such
ease. On the whole, I think most reasonable people would agree
that
three times in one season is too much, but I agree with Ted
that its
different...its thanksgiving. Like most kids, students at the
Prep and
Lasalle will have a memory of thanksgiving football, but
unfortunately
for them it will be a sour one because some adults were worried
about
how the score will look in the paper the next morning, or that
a
national ranking may suffer.
-- Mike Madera(AHG for the all timers)
michael.madera@villanova.edu
Ted,
It seems based on the tone of the e-mails I have read, and on a
total lack
of understanding the history of this game. To read the
vindictiveness of
both sides, to read the pettiness of both sides, I can come to
this
conclusion: maybe some traditions were meant to end.
Thanks
gerr02@hotmail.com
Hi Ted,
I was just browsing the Lasalle website and I wanted to share this with everyone. Go
to http://www.lschs.org/athletics/spring/lacrosse/
and on the left menu click on either the 'recruiting' or the 'player profile', and then
come whine about The Prep recruiting in football. The Prep's dominance of the
catholic league in football over the past 5 or 6 years is totally analogous to Lasalle's
reign in PCL lacrosse (132-3) since 1993. We (The Prep) didn't whine about their
recruiting and we never refused to play them, even when their coach would make them do
pushups on the field during the game every time The Prep scored. Instead we sucked
it up, got in the weight room, hit the wall and got our program to the point where we
could compete with and eventually beat them. It'd be nice if instead of just
complaining about how good we are, Lasalle just sucked it up and fought through the losses
knowing that if they worked hard enough that in a few years, maybe even next year, this
game would be an extra shot at the prep, instead of just another game for them to lose.
I know last years Lasalle lacrosse team wouldn't have cancelled a third game, had
they got another shot at us. It is not unprecedented to play a team three times all
season, it's an inconvenience for Lasalle to have to lose the The Prep three times in one
season. In fact, in soccer the PCL is set up that in the event of a tie in the
championship game, those teams must play another (third possibly fourth) game to decide
the championship. I'm just rambling now but I guess what I'm trying to say is
Lasalle shout stop whining about recruiting because they admit to doing it themselves, and
three times is only too many when you've got no faith or no chance for that matter.
Pete Mellen Prep '03
pmellen@middlebury.edu
The game should have been played - if not the varsity, at least
play a JV or
freshman game. If you want to make it a tradition, then it should be a
tradition regardless of the season. I can understand LaSalle wanting to
back out of the game but the two schools should have determined an
alternative. Going forward, both schools need to determine if this
particular "tradition" should continue because, being in the same division,
I'm sure LaSalle and the Prep will be in the situation again - maybe it only
happens once every 10 years but that's still too often. So let's find
another team (outside the Catholic League) to start a new rivalry ... or ...
identify an alternative (i.e. JV or Freshman game) TODAY before the next
time this happens.
Tom Dugan - Prep '78
t.dugan@esourcegroup.com
Its TE again and I just wanted to clarify my comments made
earlier in the week that were misconstruted in every which way. I was not speaking about
the LaSalle Football team being scared or intimidated by Prep. I know many of the football
players and they would play them 40 times if they had to. My comments were more directed
to LaSalle Alumni and the people who made the decision about the game. If it Was up to the
players there would be a Thaksgiving Day game and the tradition would carry on. I hope
that sets the record straight.
-- TE
tse1083@comcast.net
Ted,
It was recently brought to my attention (by Prep alumni) that
the game is
now officially off. As a LaSalle alum, I am thoroughly
embarrassed by the
actions of our football coach, and administration. I was
fortunate enough to
attend LaSalle during the Brett Gordon era, when the Prep (and
anyone really
in the PCL) had no shot against us. They still showed up every
game intent
on beating us. They took pride in the tradition of the game.
The score is
inconsequential in games like these. Who cares if LaSalle lost
100-0, the
point is to continue the tradition. I hope that this act of
cowardness does
not go without notice by the esteemed LaSalle alumni. Sack up,
play the
game, try for the "W" but don't run from the
"L".
Peter.O'Donnell@phlx.com
I've read most of the emails sent in with the majority from prep fans blasting la
salle. Now id like to let every1 know what i think about the topic. First off for all
those prep people who say how they "took it like men" back in the day, id like
to remind you that you played one and only one time. Brett Gordon's junior year a prep
team that was very close to playing lasalle in the title was losing 35-0 at halftime on
thanksgivin. So can all you prep fans honestly say you'd go through that three times?
didnt think so. And for all those prep fans who talk about how lasalle took the cheaters
way out of things id like you to think back to last year. your soccer team was in the
title and was missing a player due to a red card, so u brought up a football player, who
never played soccer in his 4 years at the prep, to play. That player was Pat Kaiser. And
guess what, the prep still lost! I can tell you for a fact t! he athletic department at
lasalle would never let that happen, theyre not that desperate to win a game,
after all thats all that it is. So next time any prep person writes in talkin about Tony
Resch and the atheltic department as bad role models id like you to look at the prep and
how desperate they were to win a soccer championship. Besides the prep is the most
overrated team in the nation. are they an extremely good team? yes but i could find 20
teams right now around the country who would run up and down the field on them. The only
nonleague team who they played who was anything above average was the team from brooklyn.
The gilman school was 3-4 after the prep beat them, but all you people can think that
theyre a real powerhouse down in the d.c. area. Don't you worry guys joe collistra
is gonna have lasalle back in order soon enough, with a 1900 yard passer returning theyll
be looking to play a more important game after thanksgiving next year, the title game. And
no lasalle wouldnt use someone who never played football just for that game because they
have a little thing called class. no one knows the history of the game or the
teams.
p.s. the 14-0 1996 team from lasalle would throw all over the prep, dan jones would never
be able to cover all-state wide reciever mike mattia. matt parkhurst wouldnt be a
factor because former stanford football player paul weinacht would toss him around
all game.
bigdawg6206@yahoo.com
whats up Ted im back i just had to correct my good friend Pete Mellen
on a few things. Now Pete you say you went to the Prep so i assume that your a somewhat
intelligent human being, but some of the stuff you said in your email were pretty offbase.
First off if you clicked on the link to the that LaSalle web site that you included, you
would be taken to the Lacrosse page. then on the left hand side is the link you mentioned
titled "recruiting". Now Pete if you click on it and just skim, you dont even
have to read, you would see that it says that recruiting was illegal until 2001. So Pete
your trying to say that the reason LaSalle has been good at lacrosse is becuase they
recruit like the Prep does in football. But seeing as LaSalle won the title in '93 and
then from '94-'02 its kinda hard for the whole basis of your argument to be
believable. and you guys had one good year at sports Pete (last year) the only sport the
Prep is going to be good at this year is footba! ll, so dont say LaSalle should suck it up
and work hard "and maybe in a few years theyll be as good at sports as the
Prep". dont worry it wont take a few years because LaSalle is already better than the
prep at just about everything. oh yea and LaSalle has more national merit students, so i
guess it might be a better school too....
bigdawg6206@yahoo.com
THIS WILL BE THE FINAL WORD ON THIS MATTER.
THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED.